Fascists and Kooks

we all bleed the same colour

Published on June 2, 2004 By Muggaz In Politics

“Maybe Rights are just more open minded than the left” – this has to be one of the most inflammatory remarks I have seen in my short blogging career! I found the comment on the JU feature page; you can read it here.

I am not going to shirk any issues here – unfortunately, the term fascist is all too easy to bandy about, I myself am guilty of brandishing the term upon some in a not in-frequent fashion, alas, I know they are not fascists in the true sense of the word, but it is ever so easy to integrate into any argument coming from the right.

The same can be said for the term ‘kook’ I believe it be can successfully argued that the term ‘kook’ has been dropped quite more substantially than the friendly ‘F’ word. How can it be so easy to align yourself with the left, when almost anything you say can be construed as ‘kook’ diatribe!

I try to keep my political activity to a minimum at JU – I am simply not in the same league as guys like Draginol, Greywar, or on the other side, Kingbee or Saint-Ying, however, I am very noticeably left, and I pride myself on my open mind.

When you assess people’s political leanings, and factionalise them accordingly, one side is always going to say the other has it easier. I won’t go so far as to say that those leaning to the right are closed minded, but I would like to question Karmagirls reasoning behind assuming supposed ignorance on the side of the left.

From my perspective – anyone from the right really struggles with broad and open thought. I am not so brash as to state they are not capable, but I sometimes find myself questioning their opinion, as it seems they discount so many factors when drawing their political conclusions.

This is what makes a place like JU so great. Would anyone bother reading arguments from the other side if they were so ‘closed minded’?

I would argue that those on the left would have more of an International concern. In today’s global climate, I suppose Karma can only assume how difficult it is to be on the ‘left’ because she is certainly on the right. If I can explain one thing about myself personally, and hopefully most of those inclined to the left, we don’t just rant and rave about people dieing, bombs being dropped etc… we generally care for the wellbeing of Humanity…

If the right think it’s easy to care about perceived injustice, then they are really more self centred than I thought, it just goes to prove why people are left, and why people are right. My interpretation based on these facts would be that the left are people who care about everyone, whereas the right simply care about their own personal agenda’s - which Karma correctly assumed.

Then again, we could both be wrong.

BAM!!!

Comments (Page 2)

vincible

on Jun 02, 2004

Some views come across more clearly than others.

Draginol, for instance, might have lots of liberal views that he doesn't talk about much. But his political blogs tend to be about his views on Iraq, terrorism, and on taxation, and on all of these issues his views are distinctly conservative. His liberal views, whatever they might be, don't come across at all in his writing--the *only* time I've seen them brought up is when he's arguing that he's not really a conservative. I've never seen him make the case for the libera/Democratic position on *anything.* Not saying it hasn't happened--I don't even come close to reading everything on this forum--but if it does happen, it's much more rare than the reverse.

The same goes for KG, to a lesser extent.

KarmaGirl

on Jun 02, 2004

and to quote Brad, whinging is the first action in a 4 stage process of getting something done…

I thinking he said talking, not "whining". Most people who whine do nothing but whine. They want others to take care of them instead of working to take care of themselves. There is a difference. To say that I am conservative because I don't like people who whine but never do anything is a bit absurd, don't you think? I would think that liberals would want people to *do* things to help, not just whine that *others* should do things.

I've never seen him make the case for the libera/Democratic

That is because he is not a Democrat.

You don't have to be conservative to be a Republican. That is just another assumption that people make.

InfoGeek

on Jun 02, 2004

Tell somebody that you are a "liberal republican" and watch their head spin

FYI, from 1872:

Liberal Republican Party,

insurgent reform wing of the U.S. Republican Party that challenged what it considered the corruption of President Ulysses S. Grant's administration by nominating a rival slate of candidates in the national election of November 1872. Led by such prominent Americans as senators Charles Sumner and Carl Schurz and editor Horace Greeley, the dissidents resisted Grant's renomination for the presidency, claiming that his first term in office was corrupt and inefficient. Meeting in Cincinnati, Ohio, in May 1872, the Liberal Republicans nominated Greeley for president and won the support of the Democratic Party by adopting a platform advocating governmental reform, particularly in the areas of civil service, lower tariffs, and a more conciliatory Reconstruction policy toward the South. Despite Democratic support, the Liberals were easily defeated by the regular Republican ticket in a climate of post-Civil War complacency and business prosperity. Grant was goaded, however, into advocating several of their proposals during his second term. Most of the Liberals rejoined the regular Republican Party by 1876.

IG

Muggaz

on Jun 02, 2004

It wasn't that you made a sweeping generalization per se, it's that you had very specific tyeps as if those were the only 3 types. Most people are a mix of types. You might as well have just entitled it as "Profiles of the people I like and don't like.

That wasn't the case at all Brad...

Those are sincere generalisations based on my experience with Americans! I know most people are a mix of types, thats why I was careful to make the generalisations as broad as possible...

BAM!!!

Muggaz

on Jun 02, 2004

Just so we are clear... I am also not a fan of people who do nothing but whinge... but just so you are clear, it's the discontentment among the masses is the first sign of change... your discontentment with excessive whinging, that just goes to show that you are happy with the current situation...

BAM!!!

KarmaGirl

on Jun 02, 2004

I was careful to make the generalisations as broad as possible...

Like broad generalizations are better? Oh, that made my day.

KarmaGirl

on Jun 02, 2004

your discontentment with excessive whinging, that just goes to show that you are happy with the current situation...

No, that shows that I am just sick of people whining. How many posts do you see that people talk about what they did to change something? No, you pretty but just see people whining and telling *other* people how they should do something about it. Sorry, I am somebody who does something when I think something is wrong. I have a very large dislike for whiners even if I agree with what they are whining about. Change comes from people *doing* something. Maybe I'm not liberal enough to appreciate the whining....

Muggaz

on Jun 02, 2004

Karma,

It was the only way I could get my point across... and like i have to spell out again, those are my sincere opinions of Americans.

Their are three types of Americans.... one i can deal with, another I love, and a third that drives me insane... and I pointed out why this was the case... being pedantic wont get you anywhere, just try and understand for one second...

BAM!!!

Muggaz

on Jun 02, 2004

Change comes from people *doing* something. Maybe I'm not liberal enough to appreciate the whining....

I dont think appreciate was the right word, but yes, I dont think you are liberal enough to understand why some people are so aggreived.

BAM!!!

KarmaGirl

on Jun 02, 2004

I dont think you are liberal enough to understand why some people are so aggreived.

Then, I don't ever want to be that "liberal". I don't ever want to get to a point that I think it is OK for people to sit back and expect other people to fix what they see is "broken". If my car won't start, sitting on the curb complaining to everyone who walks by will do nothing. However, getting some tools and fixing it will help. Sure, I might need somebody to help me, but I don't expect them to do all the work. Maybe the fact that I actually do things to fix what I see wrong clouds my vision to the point that I can't see how whining does any good Now, if the discussion was over advocating, that is a different story. Advocates do things with the help of others. Whiners just whine and do nothing.

KarmaGirl

on Jun 02, 2004

It was the only way I could get my point across... and like i have to spell out again, those are my sincere opinions of Americans.

Actually, you shouldn't assume that I even read it. Just stating that broad generalizations were somehow better was what made me laugh. Of course, I don't lump people of any race, religion or nationality together, but I guess that must be my "conservative" side showing, right sure.

Muggaz

on Jun 02, 2004

Then, I don't ever want to be that "liberal". I don't ever want to get to a point that I think it is OK for people to sit back and expect other people to fix what they see is "broken"

Lucky we aren't talking about your car.

Your car doesn't effect everyone else... I am talking about society, and you are talking about your car... great.

Just stating that broad generalizations were somehow better was what made me laugh

In this situation, it certainly was... I am glad you laughed though... it makes my post all worth while

BAM!!!

Draginol

on Jun 02, 2004

I really don't mind whiners that much. I mean, they're annoying. But people who sit on their butts complaining and doing nothing about it are just less competition for me.

The foundation of our company is arguably based on the fact that other people sat back and do nothing but think of big things. For example, people had been talking how great an OS/2 game would be back in 1993. They argued it would sell great. Others bitched that the "game companies" wouldn't make an OS/2 game and that it was a Microsoft-led conspiracy.

So I bought a book "Teach yourself C in 21 days" and a book on programming OS/2 and wrote Galactic Civilizations over the course of about a year pretty much all by myself. Anyone could have done what I did. But too many people just sat back and complained and waited for someone else to do it. Which suited me fine. 10 years ago I was driving a $500 Chevette. It's amazing how simply getting up and DO-ING something can improve your lot in life.

Saint Ying

on Jun 02, 2004

Ummm... I don't think you've really thought about what the democratic party stands for, and I think you are awfully fixated on the welfare problem when it seems like none of the politicians really care about welfare. Republicans want you to think about welfare and vote for them, but have they actually shrunk the program under George W. Bush? No, and why not? Because the money given to welfare recipients goes right back into the pocketbooks of the food industries, the housing industries, and of course Wal-Mart

. When Bill Clinton was president did he make the program bigger (IIRC, he actually tried to reform it). Does John Kerry have a plan to make welfare bigger? I'm starting to get the sense that this guy takes government responsibility way to seriously to try to increase welfare spending (of all things) at this juncture. He's much more concerned with health care, military and the budget deficit than with that. Welfare is firmly planted in the government bureaucracy we live with, and it doesn't seem like anyone really wants to take it on. It's not just an emotionally driven 'charity' either, it's an issue of public health and safety, common decency, and as I said, economy.

Also, I think your stigmas about welfare recipients are just that: stigmas. Granted, you may have experience with family members who you believe are lazy welfare bums (I don't know them; I can't say), but I don't think you can treat all welfare recipients with that broad a brush, or simply say that they are all whining babies who are looking for someone else to fix their problems. That's a very negative, not to mention superficial, way of seeing people.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with whining. People love to whine. Whining is fun. You yourself have been doing alot of whining in this post without actually realizing it. We live in a whining society with a government full of whining persons. And whining DOES get results, because there's always someone who will pretend to accomodate you. That's the nature of the animal.

Saint Ying

on Jun 02, 2004

Anyone could have done what I did.

Um, not me. I hate computers.
But I am teaching myself Russian so that I can go there and whine and complain about the way things are. Russia has an honorable tradition of whining, and look at how awesome their tradition in the 'whining arts' is.
BTW, Draginol, go screw yourself.

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