A day to day acount of the whacky and wonderful world of Muggaz - i tend to be having too much fun these days, and often cannot remember moments due to debauchery - its time the internet repayed my loyalty by recording my antics.
In Australia!!!
Published on July 7, 2004 By Muggaz In International
With the imminent release of Fahrenheit 9/11 in Australia, it was only a matter of time before Michael Moore chimed in with his opinion on Australian politics… Personally, I am a fan of Michael Moore, and what he stands for – sure, I don’t agree with some of his methods, and he is the master of misinformation, but as far as I am concerned, he doesn’t really have the faintest idea on Australian politics, so he really shouldn’t make inflammatory remarks directed towards our government.

At a news conference for foreign correspondents in New York, Moore said Mr. Howard's decision to get "in bed" with Mr. Bush was "disgraceful", and he hoped that after seeing his film Australian voters would seek "regime change".

"I get a lot of mail from Australia," Moore said. "I probably get per capita more mail from Australia than from any other country. A lot of angry Australians, I never realised how angry, and I don't think just because they are living in Australia, right?

"No, I mean, I realise, it's like, you're living on an island, but you're also a country, but you're also a continent. So I know there's a lot of confusion there, right? But what's confusing to me is how is it that someone like John Howard could get in bed with George W. Bush?

"Not to give Mr. Howard too much credit, but he at least appears to have half a brain. Half, I said. Half. I'm being generous. But, I mean, what is he doing with George W. Bush? It's really disgraceful.

"And the Australian people, according to all the polls, don't approve of being part of the coalition of the willing. And I hope the same thing happens to (Howard) that happened to the leader of Spain."


This is where Mr. Moore is wrong. As an Australian, it is within our national interests to form an allegiance with our most culturally close neighbor. Whether the decision to invade Iraq was right or wrong, Australia was always going to lend its support to the USA – a nation that saved us from the Japanese invaders in World War II, and a nation we share a great friendship with today. We may not approve of the war in Iraq, but we certainly support the allegiance we have formed with the USA.

Change comes from the inside, and as America's ally, they are more likely to listen to what we say... these are delusions of grandeur on Australias part, but our opinion as an ally is more likely to be respected then that of a detractor...

If Michael Moore cared about Australia, he might know a little more about our great country, and he might realise that the labor party (the current opposition) are nothing but a bunch of policy detractors, and if they were running the country, Australia would not be experiencing out best economic period ever, Australia would not have global respect, or notoriety – it depends which way you look at it, and our country would generally be in a downward spiral… this is one Australian’s opinion, and it counts for more than one American – no matter how large he is.

It would be extremely un-Australian to disengage from Iraq at this point in time. Admitted, the situation is grave, and certainly messy, but we must stick by our allies to the end, and show them the true grit Australian’s are made of. I don’t know what effect this movie will have on the American polls in November – I sure hope that our polls aren’t affected by the opinion of an outsider - that would be a shame indeed.

BAM!!!

Comments (Page 1)
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on Jul 07, 2004
"No, I mean, I realise, it's like, you're living on an island, but you're also a country, but you're also a continent. So I know there's a lot of confusion there, right?

Well, I guess that might be confusing to someone that can not keep more than two ideas in mind at a time (the average person can keep about 7).

It would be extremely un-Australian to disengage from Iraq at this point in time. Admitted, the situation is grave, and certainly messy, but we must stick by our allies to the end, and show them the true grit Australian’s are made of.

That is because many Australians, from my experience and the experience of some authors I have read, have a very Jacksonian attitude. Australia is our friend and ally not because it benefits them, but because they share the ideals of honesty, loyalty, and hard work. You guys stick by your friends, even if you disagree at times.
on Jul 07, 2004
CS - great reply!!!

Yeah, you guys are our mates, but we DO benefit greatly from our friendship - i.e. Free Trade agreement, and guaranteed Super Power support should our nation come under threat...

You are right though - Australian do stick by our mates to the end...

BAM!!!
on Jul 07, 2004
"We may not approve of the war in Iraq, but we certainly support the allegiance we have formed with the USA."

If what you say is true, I think this leads to a good question:

When do we say enough is enough, and that compromising what we stand for is no longer a necessary sacrifice for maintaining this allegiance.

How much of what you stand for would you sacrifice to maintain a friendship?
on Jul 07, 2004
Muggaz

Sticking by our mates and blindly being led by them is a different story. Especially when they stick their noses in when it isnt wanted.

Ill give you an example.

I live in the seat of Cunningham which at the moment is held by a Greens senator. This was due to the disdain by the local people over the resignation of the previous labor senator mid term amounst other issues. But before the by election was held we had numerous american diplomats sent over from the states questioning the greens senator on his views regarding their policies on terror etc, they also tried to bully him into not sitting. This was well known in the local community.

Sure we should stick by our allies. But when our allies are sticking their noses in our politics when it isnt necessary or wanted then I think we should question their motives. Howard has the "all the way with LBJ" mentality without really putting the debate before the australian public or senate.

Hey its all publicity for Michael Moore especially before the release, but things he has to say should be looked at closely, just another viewpoint on whats being shown to stir up the voters before an election.
on Jul 07, 2004
I live in the seat of Cunningham which at the moment is held by a Greens senator. This was due to the disdain by the local people over the resignation of the previous labor senator mid term amounst other issues. But before the by election was held we had numerous american diplomats sent over from the states questioning the greens senator on his views regarding their policies on terror etc, they also tried to bully him into not sitting. This was well known in the local community.


I bet you that Greens senator, still sat, and he wasn't initmidated by those American diplomats... and I am sure he did the members of your community and wider Australia proud.

We are in Iraq because we are helping America - we have not been bullied into fighting that war... I refuse to beleive that Australia is too weak willed to not act on it's own accord.

I guess true Australian opinion will be determined with our elections...

BAM!!!
on Jul 07, 2004
We are in Iraq because we are helping America - we have not been bullied into fighting that war... I refuse to beleive that Australia is too weak willed to not act on it's own accord.


Under what allegations did we go there though?

Remember Howard getting on tele telling us they had WMD and that it was a threat to us? Did he really do his homework and did we really have a say as to whether we wanted to be there or not?

yeah the Greens senator sat and is doing a great job.
on Jul 07, 2004
blyyyyeeeach... argh, gah. If there is anything worse than seeing this kind of argument it is seeing played over AGAIN in a third country...

Good article, Muggaz, and I appreciate how hard you tried to be balanced. I know from your other posts that you could have easily said the same thing in the jackhammer way others around here tend to.

In the end, Iraq has happened. Pulling out would be disgraceful. If the "opposition" wants to spend the next few years in Senate subcommitee meetings getting to the bottom of it, I'm cool with it. It will be the same kind of money we wasted on the Clinton BJ stuff, but hey, it keeps them busy and out of my business...

I really would expect Australia to not sink that low, though. I have had heated arguments with Australians in the past, and they have almost always been characteristically focused on moving on. It would really, really suck to see the same kind of partisan opportunism take hold there. We export enough crap as it is.

And as for Moore, he's barely excusable now. If he starts turning his dull wit on other nations, gah... it will be the worst export so far. As if we aren't holier-than-thou and meddling already, can you imagine if our LIBERALS start digging in to other nation's business... *cringe*
on Jul 07, 2004
yeah the Greens senator sat and is doing a great job.


Sing it loud and proud my friend...

Remember Howard getting on tele telling us they had WMD and that it was a threat to us? Did he really do his homework and did we really have a say as to whether we wanted to be there or not?


Johnny probably sincerely beleived that there was WMD in Iraq thanks to information from George... it's no use bringing it up again... Saddam is gone, and the WMD were never found... IMHO, even if Saddam had WMD, I still dont think Iraq should have been invaded anyways - the point is we are there now, and pulling out, like Mark LAtham wants us to do, would not be the right thing to do.

BAM!!!
on Jul 07, 2004
the point is we are there now, and pulling out, like Mark LAtham wants us to do, would not be the right thing to do.


Yeah I dont think we should pull out only because we are really supposed to be helping the Iraqi people now, and that should be our focus.

It will be interesting to see the Saddam trial and what comes out of it.
on Jul 07, 2004
In the end, Iraq has happened. Pulling out would be disgraceful. If the "opposition" wants to spend the next few years in Senate subcommitee meetings getting to the bottom of it, I'm cool with it. It will be the same kind of money we wasted on the Clinton BJ stuff, but hey, it keeps them busy and out of my business...


While I agree in principle, investigating and getting to the bottom of WHY governments make the descisions that they do is a huge step towards not making the mistakes of the past.
on Jul 07, 2004
How much of what you stand for would you sacrifice to maintain a friendship?


Hi Trina's hubby Nick! pleased to meet you!

If you think Australia's integrity is at risk by maintaining this alliance, then by all means, you have every right to question it.

I really dont like George Bush, or many conservative political opinions, however, this isn't about Australia's allegiance with George Bush, it's about our allegiance with a like minded nation, a nation that has earned our respect by past endeavours... Governents change, nations stay the same.

Thanks for your nice comments Baker...

BAM!!!
on Jul 08, 2004
I don't like Australian troops in Iraq because I think it's a total waste of money. We have troops there that don't leave the US compound and perform no noticeable function. The funds needed to keep them there would be better spent on other things; if the US won't be allies without our presence in Iraq, I think sending in AusAID rather than our overstretched SAS will give a better return on the investment.
on Jul 08, 2004
I dont think the Australia troops are there to perform any signifigant duties...

While our presence is appreciated I am sure, it is more a show of support than anything else - Australia has such limited defense capabilities, any force we send will always be overstretched...

Speaking of overstreched... AusAID could tell you all about that... As if we aren't busy enough with the re-building of East Timor!

It's hard to find any clear winners in this situation. All we can do is make the best of it.

BAM!!!
on Jul 08, 2004

but as far as I am concerned, he doesn’t really have the faintest idea on Australian politics, so he really shouldn’t make inflammatory remarks directed towards our government.


He doesn't know anything about US politics either.  IMO, Moore has no morals, principles or redeeming qualities of any kind.


And that's all I have to say about that.

on Jul 08, 2004
This was an awesome article. I reall enjoyed it mugz
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