A day to day acount of the whacky and wonderful world of Muggaz - i tend to be having too much fun these days, and often cannot remember moments due to debauchery - its time the internet repayed my loyalty by recording my antics.
Churches – buildings of history, nothing more.
Published on October 11, 2004 By Muggaz In Religion
Religion belongs in the past. I am sorry, but it has no place in society today, and it is nothing but a tool of frightening the masses into conformity. I had my niece’s christening yesterday; my sister and brother in law have decided that they will be raising her into the Catholic faith. This is fair enough, everyone has the power of choice, and I went along to the church as a mark of respect, but any inclination I had towards Catholicism or Christianity before yesterday is now completely non-existent, and I have confirmed within my heart and head total renouncement of my former faith.

I have attended many a baptism in my tenure as a faithful person. Every single Sunday until I was 16 years old I could be found in a church, praying to so and so about such and such. I stopped going because I simply didn’t believe anymore, well, it wasn’t that I didn’t believe, I couldn’t agree with the rigid conformity and the form of worship. I have probably been a couple times since, for weddings etc. but I have not been so staunch in my disenchantment of the modern day Catholic institutions until I almost walked out in disgust. I bit my tongue so as to not offend my dear mother who was sitting close, and waited till the service was over, however, I am genuinely worried about the direction of the church.

I was troubled most by the Priest’s delivery. Like I said, I have seen many baptisms before, so I am pretty sure it was either the individual, or perhaps this is the general trend of Catholicism in the last few years that I have been absent from the church, but I didn’t have a kind thought at all after the ceremony. The Priest was advocating to the parents that they surround themselves with people of only similar faith – it was like condemning anyone that didn’t believe in the Christian God to the confines of pre-baby friends. It is brainwashing at its worst. The Priest actually said “Of course, they are only children, so we must force our beliefs onto them and hope they grow up in faith” That was a point where I almost dry-reached in disgust.

Does the Catholic Church think that children will be tempted by the great Satan? Are the parents choosing to surround themselves with friends who aren’t of the same faith bad people? The reason I am so adversely affected by words is the fact that according to the Catholic doctrine of baptism, as a non-believer, I should have no input in the development of my niece’s life.

This is absolute utter bollix, and I will be there for my niece when she starts asking those hard questions. Will I be so foolish to tell her that being baptised under Catholicism means this and that? From what the Priest was saying, Catholicism is much more secular than I ever remember, and noticeably less tolerant of other denominations, and in an increasingly troubled world, the last thing I would like is for my niece to grow up thinking less of someone else because of the God they do, or don’t believe in.

I actually told my mum last weekend that she had been brainwashed by organised religion… she huffed and puffed, and didn’t really have much to say to me. She was looking at me the whole time during yesterdays ceremony, assessing whether I was reciting the ‘Our father’ prayer or not. I can tell she is disappointed – she probably thinks she has failed as a good Christian mother – having a son like me, not only renouncing my faith, but outright challenging it. I wish she could understand that having a son that thinks for himself is the best gift she has ever given me – I hope my sister and brother in law are capable of bestowing that gift upon Alexandra. I guess that’s where I come in as the crazy uncle!

BAM!!!

Comments
on Oct 11, 2004
The proposal to "surround onself with people of similar faith" is not to force faith on any person, but a recommendation to have a support group, especially now that the temptation is great to venture into make-it-yourself-Christianities.
on Oct 11, 2004
The proposal to "surround onself with people of similar faith" is not to force faith on any person, but a recommendation to have a support group, especially now that the temptation is great to venture into make-it-yourself-Christianities.


A support group of what? people to go along to church with? people you can sit at the gates of heaven with to laugh at all the other denomination's who dont get into heaven because their religion was wrong?

You dont need to be of the same faith to be a good and moral person - that is certainly not the message that the Priest was conveying in the ceremony.

Thanks for your comment though

BAM!!!
on Oct 11, 2004
You have solid opinions. You should understand, though, that they are just opinions. People as wise and educated and reasonable as yourself can come to completely different conclusions.

The only other thing I would add, is that religion is personal, even in the realm of organized religion. That's why it persists, not because it is about people, but because it is based on the faith of the individual. Yes, that faith is often taken advantage of, and yes, sometimes that faith can be mislplaced or misused. In the end, though, we have had religion since before recorded human history began. You will no doubt disagree, but it persists as strongly today as it ever has. People don't fear being open about their lack of faith now. You'll find throughout history many people that didn't believe in God or the value of religion, and for every one there were thousands more who remained silent in the face of the church as a secular power.

The one thing you shouldn't do, is degrade the faith of others. Degrade what they do, call them on their hypocracy, but leave their faith alone. You seem to be someone who understands the limits of activism and imposed change. You have every right to tear away at what is wrong, but when you tear away at religion in general you also crush what could be a great motivation for good.

I think you should give it some more thought, and see that though religion is abused and hurtful sometimes, it is also a stabilizing force that human society has relied upon for the last 10,000 years or so. Sometimes if a surgeon cuts irresponsibly, more might be lost than had he just left the patient alone.
on Oct 11, 2004
While I admire your insight Baker - as I always have, you haven't said anything new to me.

I recognise Religion is certainly a tool for good, however, I simply cannot agree with a statement from a Priest that supports renouncing other faiths - in effect, that is what it is. I have renounced my faith, though I rocked up to my nieces christening because I respect my sisters and my mothers faith. When I have a child, I will purposefully surround myself with as many different faiths and walks of life plausible.

Religion may have stabilized human society over the last 10,000 years or so, however, It has been manipulated to suit those in power at the time. Jesus would not want anyone to bomb anyone else, it's as simple as that. Jesus certainly surrounded himself with people of no faith. I am just greatly offended by the church - according to them, or what the Priest was saying anyway, I should have no influence on the bigger picture of my neice - I am a demon because I don't comply.

lucky I live now, rather than 500 years ago, because I would be burning at the stake as a heretic... I am reminded of the Christian prayer of serenity - "Lord, grant me the strength and wisom to accept the things I cannot change" Ohhh.... the Irony of it all.

BAM!!!
on Oct 11, 2004
I had exactly the same feelings as you when I went to my nieces christening. All my family is catholic except me. My sister is not religious really, but thought Madison should be christened. So she could attend a catholic school, where there is usally a better level of education offered. I didn't agree with it at all. I agree to me it appears to be a form of brain washing, taking away the ability for people to make their own decisions. Children are very impressionable they should be taught to find right and wrong themselves. To trust themselves, and make decisions. Having said all that. I do understand why people follow a religion, and I have alot of respect for that. They choose to follow that religion, and I think it gives alot of people some kind of comfort. I'm not about to deny anyone that. Each to their own. It's just not for me.
on Oct 11, 2004
The only true faith is Maxwellianism, it dwarfs Christianity and Islam because it truly is a pragmatic faith.
on Oct 11, 2004
Good post, Muggaz, you get a point whore insightful from me
on Oct 11, 2004
Religion belongs in the past. I am sorry, but it has no place in society today, and it is nothing but a tool of frightening the masses into conformity.


Religion may have stabilized human society over the last 10,000 years or so, however, It has been manipulated to suit those in power at the time.


I completely agree!!!

on Oct 11, 2004
>> I actually told my mum last weekend that she had been brainwashed by organised religion

You shouldn't have said it like that perhaps. No one likes to be told that they've been brainwashed no matter how solid your argument may be.

You are not listening while demanding to be listened to. While you may be right, your blantant and insensitive words are no different from a Christian who is ill-tolerant of the practice of others. If you are better than the Priest, you shouldn't be talking like him. Certain non-christians talk the way Christians do. Both sides accusing each other of being brainwashed by Someone or being influenced by Someone, of being stupid to do what they do and woe-be-damn to them. While on a pagan forum, I listened to the complaints of practicing pagans who complain of being treated differently in the workplace by Christian colleagues. And what do they do? Do they learn? No, any christian who walks into the board is a potential target for their frustration. While pagans are allowed to use their teachings, Christians are not allowed to bring their bibles into the discussion. That one is better than the other is a nice of way of shutting the door completely and not allowing any further discussion on the possibilities. Who am I talking about now? Both. I said to them before I left: Be careful not to become that which you critisize.

It's amazing how people talk about hating being generalized, yet they generalize as they please when it comes to religion. Personally this urks me as form of hypocrisy. I would argue with my missionary friend about the necessity of going to church these days (using some of the same points you have raised here Muggaz), I would never tell her that she shouldn't go or attack her practice. That's her choice, between her and God. In the same way, she would never tell me nor would she think, as she is just not that sort of person that I'm going to hell for not going to church.



on Oct 12, 2004
Thanks for your comments guys....

Ravenblack - I am not insulting my mum by criticising her faith, I am criticising the religion, not someone's faith of it. I know my mum is a smart lady, she produced me, so she must have some brains about her... when I criticise the institution, I don't mean to offend any of the followers, but by the same token, I would expect the followers to respect my opinion as well, and not diregard me as someone who is destined to the pits of hell... It works both ways.

BAM!!!
on Oct 13, 2004
Yeah, too bad it doesn't work both ways. As the priest has shown, blind faith and intolerance go hand in hand.
on Oct 19, 2004
Sorry I'm finding this post so late... There's so much to say, that I don't know where to start. "Religion belongs in the past" you said. Knowing I'm a Christian you'd expect me to disagree, right? But, I couldn't agree more. As far as my definition of "religion", I believe completely that it should be put in the past. "Religion" to me is a set of rules. "Religion" means putting faith in a system.

On the other hand, "Christianity" to me is a word I like to use when talking about my personal relationship with my Saviour. There's such a huge difference. Since Christ died for me, "religion" was put to death, and the curtian was torn (if you understand what I mean). My "Christianity" isn't about "religion" infact it's about being set free from my sin. It's about not being bound to the "religion of sin", the way the world works.

I believe the Catholic church as a whole has absolutely nothing to do with "faith" as they claim. Sure, they have "faith" that Jesus is God's son, but they only know ABOUT Him, they don't truly KNOW him. (remember, I'm speaking as a whole. There are some Catholics I know that are totally in love with God).

~Sarah
on Nov 08, 2004
You perhaps could have been more sensitive to your mother, but sometimes the Church is so overwhelming in its views, such as in this case, that it is hard not to get angry. Nevertjheles, never forget that there are good Christians, like trinap and Teegstar.