JoeUser – it’s up to you.

Should I stay or should I go now?

Published on October 5, 2004 By Muggaz In Just Hanging Out

Will you look at this conceited, pig headed moron, appealing to the masses of this blogging community, giving them the power of choice? Yeah – that’s me I guess… the decision is simply too hard for me to make on my lonesome, and whilst it all comes back to me, and how I feel about the situation, I would like to consult my blogging friends – if I have any left that is!

For reasons many of you will never know, some of you will assume, and others may implicate, Muggaz has been permanently blacklisted from everyone’s blog at the behest of the fine ‘moderators’ of this upstanding blogging community. This grieves me somewhat, as it can be construed that I am being anti-social by not commenting on other blogs, yet I assure you this is not the case.

My dilemma is simple – Should I go on posting my fine social commentary from the confines of Muggaz Adventures, or should I start fresh some place where everyone is on level footing, rather than people – i.e. me, feel like second class citizens, and generally disassociated from the community. It is the goals of the administrators to have Muggaz fade away from JoeUser like a star in the night, and without your help, that is exactly what will happen.

Am I bigger than the community? Can Muggaz adventures survive without Muggaz contributing to the community? Blogging is an extremely social activity, so the survival of Muggaz Adventures depends largely on my audience – of course, I can start some place new, build relationships with a bunch of new people who will probably think the same of me as many of you do – but I don’t really want to go through that again – bonds and friendships have been formed, and I resent having to turn my back on those weird internet relationships… besides, there are only so many internet stalkers a guy like me can handle ok?

So, depending on how this article is received, the answer will be apparent, if you bid good riddance to the Mug, tell me so, or your silence will be testimony, yet, if you feel your day is enlightened from the insight of Muggaz, and you enjoy my e-company, as I do yours, and you promise to still read my articles even though I can’t comment on yours, please let me know… Of course, I am arrogant enough to suggest the administrators are making an error in judgement, alas, I am at the mercy of their whim, so I must yield. I am not advocating members of the community make the same assumptions, I am simply stating my intentions concisely – I value this community no matter what, alas, If I am not valued – I will take my leave and continue to write wherever I choose to bestow my antics upon.

Are Stars still as bright if no-one looks at them? Yeah – sure they are, but you have the power to choose which stars you look at – perhaps I am an attention seeking goofball using a blogging community as a median to make up for my attention starved childhood – who knows? I am genuinely sincere when I say I value the friendships I have formed here, and the people I care about know who they are - I am loathe to disregard those relationships… maybe loyalty in situations like this can be interpreted as a negative character trait, but my loyalty lies with JoeUsers, unless they tell me otherwise.

Is this the last BAM!!!?

I hope not!

Comments (Page 3)

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

It's after 8 A.M. here and I haven't been to sleep yet. We'll have to continue this later.

If you really want to discuss it further than we'll have to move to email because I can't give any more examples in public without pissing someone off.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

You started by saying it is a judgement call.

What I meant by "judgment" call is how to handle a situation when it is presented. First you have to decide if the error was so egregious that action needs to me taken. If that is "yes" then you have to decide what to do. No "authority" acts in a vacuum. You can't escape outside forces, but you can try and keep as neutral as humanly possible. No human can be 100% objective. It is impossible to have interaction with people and not have to make a judgment call at some point.

Neither Brad nor I know everything that is said on here. And, I can't speak for Brad and what he has said. however, I can say that I can not recall ever saying anything like you are pointing out. Brad is a very busy person, and he skims a lot of what is said. He runs a company. You can't expect him to know what is going on all the time. However, the question would be if what he said had any reaction to it. Did the person lose privileges because of the opinion that he expressed? Did that opinion have any real effect? That is the difference. Just like a judge has to keep an open mind and use a reasonability test when making a decision, so do the admins of this site. Just because we disagree does not mean that we will create a bias either way. That is just an assumption that people make.

And, how would you know if somebody was "reprimanded" or not? Does it have to be public to have happened? Does dirty laundry always have to be made public.

But, bottom line, Muggaz knows why he was confined. He also knows what it will take to get it removed. The ball is in his court.

BlueDev

on Oct 05, 2004

Muggaz, I have had disagreements with you in the past, but would hope we have put those behind us. I have to echo those who have stated that we all (you, I, anyone here) need to understand there are rules to play by. Perhaps we don't like them, perhaps we feel they are applied with some bias. Nevertheless, there they are. All comments in this blog aside, the power is yours to make the ultimate decision as to whether you want to play here (with an understanding of the rules), or if you want to head elsewhere and see what you find.

Whatever your decision, I will continue to pop in to your blog on occasion if it is active, and welcome anything you may choose to leave in mine.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

If you really want to discuss it further than we'll have to move to email because I can't give any more examples in public without pissing someone off.

Gene, don't sweat it. I do know what you are getting at, and I do know that you are a very reasonable person and that you can see things from both sides. I also know that you understand that we can't be perfect 100% of the time and it's impossible for us to even know what is going on all the time. But, if you want, feel free to email me what you have seen and how you view it. It is possible that what you have read I haven't even seen, or I may have missed what you want to point out. I promise that it won't piss me off....unless you feel like calling me an asshat or something

Myrrander

on Oct 05, 2004

Ah, as someone who had his name mentioned, I'll clarify. I wasn't exiled for disagreeing with Brad. I was exiled for calling Brad names. Which, in retrospect, was pretty dumb of me, not just because he's an admin, but because it's childish. Secondly, I made a second name (this one) and I made a friend of mine a name from my computer (yes, yes, they all had the same password, believe what you will) and I was simply told that was against the rules, be nicer and pick one account. Which was fine with me. I have continued to disagree with Brad, and he's answered with his own opinions but no threats of banishment, which is A-OK with me. I'd prolly sit down and have a beer or a cup of coffee with any of you, even if I think your politics are nutty.

In short, as somebody who's been on this train, I don't think people are getting gigged for disagreeing with moderators. It wasn't even hard to get my account back, I just had to act like a civilised human being. That having been said, I enjoy your posts Muggaz, so I hope it all works out.

Cheers.

Angloesque

on Oct 05, 2004

Oh, god, here I go. There'll be a black mark next to my name in someone's book after this.

I know what's going on here, and as we appear to be keeping names on the DL, I won't give any that haven't been mentioned. This demotion of Muggaz to "visitor" status is stupid. He and the Other Person (OP) just don't get along and he wound up paying for it while she gets off scott free (as far as I know). That's ridiculous. In terms of adding new and interesting views and ideas to this forum, Muggaz is far ahead of her. In terms of blogging, she's very interesting--they both are. But to punish one and not the other... c'mon. They've both been doing it, and by "it" I mean antagonizing each other. Neither will let their little spat die. And as far as what happens on other forums, it should stay on OTHER FORUMS.

We all have the option to blacklist and Muggaz is NOT a person I would blacklist, and I don't appreciate having that taken away from me. He's admitted he has faults which is more than I can say about OP and it's clear that he tries very hard to make things better if he's made them worse. That's perfectly evident in the e-mail to Karma/Angie/whoever. Does he always say the right thing? No. Does he admit that? Yes.

Sorry, but I think a bad call was made here. Muggaz, if you stay, I'll continue to interact with you on your blog. If you go...elsewhere....I'll watch you there, too. You're awesome.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Angloesque, read #12 again. It is not because of the dispute, it's because of what he threatened to do. I don't care whose "side" anyone is on. Both are wrong. He wouldn't have been confined, either, if he wouldn't have said what he did. Can I make it any more clear? You also don't see the other side of this. You are only seeing the one email that was sent after all the others, not the ones that caused this.

And, as I stated: "bottom line, Muggaz knows why he was confined. He also knows what it will take to get it removed. The ball is in his court."

Angloesque

on Oct 05, 2004

Karma,

I prefer blog #13 beause it has context. Sorry, but Muggaz's threats seem pretty weak to me. "I will comment as I see fit." What's wrong with that? I blog as I see fit all the time. As for personal attacks, that's what I'm talking about. Neither one is immune, here, but you've chosen to demote him. And for what it's worth, I have been watching and reading about this issue for ages now.

-A.

Angloesque

on Oct 05, 2004

I should probably add that I don't mean to make this sound personal, Karma. I, like others here, can be bad at choosing my words, so I would hope that no hard feelings come out of this. (Usually I shut up about this stuff, but every so often--perhaps my proximity to Mt. Saint Helens?--I know I need to be heard.)

-A.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Angloesque, you don't have the emails in front of you. All you see is the last "friendly" email that he sent days after the fact. The "comment as I see fit" is not weak when it is in the context of the feud that he had going on. It was also directly after "if this turns messy, my gloves really will come off, and the personal attacks will fly towards her".

It doesn't matter if *both* were having issues with each other. The fact is that *he* made those threats.

Look at it from an Admins point of view:

You have two people equally doing wrong things. One person sends you an email that says "I'll quit, sorry" and quits. The other sends you an email that states "if this turns messy, my gloves really will come off, and the personal attacks will fly towards her". What do you do? Would you wait and see if he really does keep the war up and then ban both of them? Or, would you confine him and let it die then restore him after everybody quit so that nobody got banned?

Angloesque

on Oct 05, 2004

in the heat of the moment, it has taken me some time, and I understand if you can't forgive me for that, but it was away out of line, and I am sorry from the bottom of my heart.

I am sorry you bore the brunt of a pissed off Muggaz... thats no excuse, but I cannot emphasise enough that when I emailed her, your best interest's, and those of the community were at heart... you can take my word for it or not... I do swear on my dads grave though, and thats the strongest oath i can present.

I am sorry this has carried on, I have done some stupid things, said some stupid things, but Angie, I am not the bad guy, and I refuse to be painted as such.

How many apologies do you need?

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Angloesque, you are picking a battle with one sided information. I refuse to drag this out, and I refuse to drag the rest of this dirty laundry into the forums. I am sorry that you can not see this from an admin view point, and I am sorry that you can't understand that you are only seeing one side. I know he is your friend, and I know that it is obviously not possible for you to be objective. But, please, just stop. If Muggaz wants off confinement, he knows what needs to happen. You are not helping him in the least.

Until this drops and people chill out, nothing is going to change. I'm done with this conversation. There is nothing more to say.

Angloesque

on Oct 05, 2004

One-sided? Funny, I've seen two.
Dragging dirty laundry? You were the first to post it here.
I'll agree that I don't see this from an admin point of view.
It's not possible for me to be objective? Probably true, but it doesn't make me wrong.
Stop? Okay. After this, I'm done.
Not helping him in the least? I didn't know that standing up for something I believe in was wrong. And it sounds like you're threatening him based on what I've said, which, as we both know, wouldn't be particularly nice of you.

-A.

citahellion

on Oct 05, 2004

Angloesque,

Apologies are not what is being requested. He can apologize all he wants, but that's not addressing the issue, which is really his behavior. I didn't see anything along the lines of "I won't do it again" or "I won't post personal attacks" anywhere in his posted e-mail.

citahellion

on Oct 05, 2004

Anglo,

To follow up now to your 43 (the previous was to your 41),
No, you haven't seen full information from both sides. What we've seen here is 98% Muggaz and 2% Karma.
Dirty Laundry? No, Muggaz was the first to post it. Karma merely posted the minimum amount possible to explain the context within which she took action.
Standing up for what you believe in? What exactly is it that you are standing up for here? (Serious question, I can think of a couple of options and I'd like to know.)

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