JoeUser – it’s up to you.

Should I stay or should I go now?

Published on October 5, 2004 By Muggaz In Just Hanging Out

Will you look at this conceited, pig headed moron, appealing to the masses of this blogging community, giving them the power of choice? Yeah – that’s me I guess… the decision is simply too hard for me to make on my lonesome, and whilst it all comes back to me, and how I feel about the situation, I would like to consult my blogging friends – if I have any left that is!

For reasons many of you will never know, some of you will assume, and others may implicate, Muggaz has been permanently blacklisted from everyone’s blog at the behest of the fine ‘moderators’ of this upstanding blogging community. This grieves me somewhat, as it can be construed that I am being anti-social by not commenting on other blogs, yet I assure you this is not the case.

My dilemma is simple – Should I go on posting my fine social commentary from the confines of Muggaz Adventures, or should I start fresh some place where everyone is on level footing, rather than people – i.e. me, feel like second class citizens, and generally disassociated from the community. It is the goals of the administrators to have Muggaz fade away from JoeUser like a star in the night, and without your help, that is exactly what will happen.

Am I bigger than the community? Can Muggaz adventures survive without Muggaz contributing to the community? Blogging is an extremely social activity, so the survival of Muggaz Adventures depends largely on my audience – of course, I can start some place new, build relationships with a bunch of new people who will probably think the same of me as many of you do – but I don’t really want to go through that again – bonds and friendships have been formed, and I resent having to turn my back on those weird internet relationships… besides, there are only so many internet stalkers a guy like me can handle ok?

So, depending on how this article is received, the answer will be apparent, if you bid good riddance to the Mug, tell me so, or your silence will be testimony, yet, if you feel your day is enlightened from the insight of Muggaz, and you enjoy my e-company, as I do yours, and you promise to still read my articles even though I can’t comment on yours, please let me know… Of course, I am arrogant enough to suggest the administrators are making an error in judgement, alas, I am at the mercy of their whim, so I must yield. I am not advocating members of the community make the same assumptions, I am simply stating my intentions concisely – I value this community no matter what, alas, If I am not valued – I will take my leave and continue to write wherever I choose to bestow my antics upon.

Are Stars still as bright if no-one looks at them? Yeah – sure they are, but you have the power to choose which stars you look at – perhaps I am an attention seeking goofball using a blogging community as a median to make up for my attention starved childhood – who knows? I am genuinely sincere when I say I value the friendships I have formed here, and the people I care about know who they are - I am loathe to disregard those relationships… maybe loyalty in situations like this can be interpreted as a negative character trait, but my loyalty lies with JoeUsers, unless they tell me otherwise.

Is this the last BAM!!!?

I hope not!

Comments (Page 2)

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

Since you asked, I'll take this opportunity to say something I've refrained from. I think y'all dropping like flies, leaving JU, or poking at the admins till you get confined to your own blogs is a bad move. The "other side" goes as far as they can then back off when an admin squints their way. The "other side" knows that one can get away with practically anything around here (for at least a certain period of time) as long as they don't attack the admins. The "other side" while far less intelligent are none-the-less playing that one thing smarter.

With y'all going the way you are it just gives them the chance to crow and claim they have won. You're being out strategized by imbeciles because you put the principal of the thing over the victory. A righteous loser is still a loser. Bad guys win because they'll do whatever is necessary while good guys follow some code of ethics. It's better to give up a few battles and win the war.

What I'll say to you is what I'd say to all Maxwellians...

Stay -- if only to stick it in the eye of "the others." Stay -- if only to be a thorn in their side. Stay -- because the more of "us" that leave the more the scales are weighted toward "them."

Stay.

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

Don't attack, and I won't need to defend.

Mugg'z, like it or lump it, the admins have the power. We're playing in their ballpark. I would do things differently if I were in charge, too -- but I'm not. We have to deal with it and work within the parameters they set up.

Just say "Yes, ma'am," and live to fight another day.

Really, it is in your best interest and the best interest of the cause to leave the admins alone. Even if you think they are wrong, let them be wrong.

Maybe you can't accomplish 100% of what you'd like here, but it's better to be allowed to play and accomplish 75% of what you want then to be thrown out of the game and accomplish 0.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Gene, there is no winner here. And, there is nobody who ended up "right or wrong". Muggaz is confined because of what he threatened to do. It has nothing to do with some juvenile fight that is going on between him and another member. There is no "good" or "bad" guy in this. They were both wrong.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Just say "Yes, ma'am," and live to fight another day.

There shouldn't be the mentality that people are fighting for something on here. There isn't a right or wrong view. There is a right and wrong way of conducting yourself, though.

If you see this place as a place to "fight" for something at, then you are at the wrong place.

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

A) Metaphors.

I find it works best to speak to someone in their own terms.

They were both wrong.

If I responded to that you and I would get into a fight and I would end up blacklisted or confined.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

If I responded to that you and I would get into a fight and I would end up blacklisted or confined.

Why do you think that? Why can't people discuss things instead of "fighting" with each other. I have seen many debates on here on very heated issues that remain debates. Where it crosses the line is when people start turning it to personal attacks and insults. Can't people just be adults and realize that they will disagree? Why does it have to turn into a war?

You don't get confined or banned for disagreeing with an admin. That has never happened.

KellyW0498

on Oct 05, 2004

Wow..I knew things were getting bad but I didn't know they escalated this far. I don't know what to tell you to do but I will miss your entertaining blogs. Everyone had a reason to come here and mine is to be entertained. There are some great writers on this site and I enjoy your entertaining blogs (all types). The drama ones, not just yours by the way, get old fast. Hang in there and keep on writing. I will still read you.
KellyW

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

On an emotional level I just don't feel that way. There are many things I just don't feel free to say.

And I've typed and erased about 10 different sentences... so, I'll have to leave it at that. I just don't feel like there's anything more I can say.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Gene, if everyone who disagreed with an admin got confined, there wouldn't be a political section. Hell, even people who have called Brad a fascist are still here. There is a huge difference between disagreeing and breaking JU rules. There are also people on here that we have let slide (like pretending to be somebody that you are not) but everything has a breaking point if you push it too far.

citahellion

on Oct 05, 2004

Muggaz, I don't believe that you are a bad person who deserves to be banned from the site. I do believe that you don't know when to shut up about something, to let things slide, and to move on. And it sounds to me that someone is trying to demonstrate to you that you have passed that point.

If you can show that you've learned where the point is, and not go past it, you won't have any more trouble.

But if you're not willing to change your behavior to suit the site, then perhaps you should go looking for a site that meets your own needs better. You're an engaging writer and a generally interesting person; you won't have any trouble finding a new audience.

I'll agree with Gene insofar as he said, basically, "don't argue with the admins." You may disagree with them, but the admins on here have earned their stripes many times over, and they're doing what they think is best for the site. If you want to convince them to change their minds about something, it'll take a lot more than "Sorry, but why can't you see I was only doing what I thought was right?"

WiseFawn

on Oct 05, 2004

I have to agree with much of what Gene Nash has said,Muggaz. For whatever reasons I've been ready to quit in the past, I've often decided to spit out several blogs in a day instead.
I understand there is reason for moderators. But I also understand that we each have the ability to blacklist. I don't want Muggaz blacklisted from my blog. But I don't want this to drag on for you, either, Muggaz.

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

Hi, Karma,

But really, what is the point? What is the point of disagreeing or debating? It's not like it is going to accomplish anything, right? I don't believe that some bit of rhetorical genius will make the administration change its collective mind about anything.

About the only thing I can see it accomplishing is maybe getting on an admin's bad side or lowering whatever psychic capital I may have built up.

Another reason I don't want to say anything more is that -- let's say I wanted to give examples of where other people had violated the T.O.S. or made threats, I couldn't do it without pissing someone off and becoming more of a target to those I might mention. Yes I could do it in an email -- but that brings me back to what I said above. I don't believe it would have any impact and would probably just lessen my psychic capital. So, again, what is there to be accomplished in it?

To me it looks like a no win situation. No sense in playing that game.

Ravenblack

on Oct 05, 2004

I am not sure whether or not you consider me a blogging friend, Muggaz, I certainly do not wish you to leave. I never thought ill of you, had the impression you are kinda fun, loud and have interesting views. I will certainly read your articles if they interest me, and some of them, I have found to be insightful. I don't care whether or not you commented on mine. I myself do not always leave comments.

KarmaGirl

on Oct 05, 2004

Moderating is a judgment call. First, we have to read what is said to even know it exists. That, well, doesn't happen because there simply isn't enough time. However, if somebody antagonizes an admin, then our attention is drawn to it.

People have been let back on after being exiled. It's not our goal to ban people. We want people to blog here, but there has to be rules. Myrrander knows that we do let people back on after they *discuss* things with us. (Discussing is much different than threatening to do something or telling us to do something). Dan is no longer banned. People are allowed back on here after discussion. It's not a matter of "changing our minds" it's a matter of showing that you can behave in the JU community.

I think that you have a very wrong assumption on how moderation is handled. It's not about opinions. It's about the general well being of the community. Debating with me does not change my opinion of a person. Insulting me will. Admins are people. They have their own views and they will disagree with people. Just because we disagree with you does not mean that we will have a bias against you.

Gene Nash

on Oct 05, 2004

I think that you have a very wrong assumption on how moderation is handled.

You forget that I was doing this as far back as the 80's as well.

They have their own views and they will disagree with people. Just because we disagree with you does not mean that we will have a bias against you.

I'm not saying it is a purposeful thing but I do believe that when someone is seen as more-often-than-not being critical or disagreeing, and another person is seen as being nice that it will have an impact. Perceptions do get developed and I believe those perceptions influence decisions. A bias for is as bad as a bias against.

I'll give you an example. Without naming names, I once saw Brad say (paraphrasing) "I can't imagine X or Y calling someone an asshole" when X had just within 2 weeks prior called someone an asshole on a thread Brad was taking part in. See, Brad has a very positive feeling about X, and that's fine. All I'm saying is those perceptions can play into a form of myopia where on a subconscious level you play down or forget the bad things one person does or play up and vividly remember the bad things another person does.

I'm not saying it is on purpose but it does exist. That's human nature.

It's not a matter of "changing our minds" it's a matter of showing that you can behave in the JU community.

Then why debate? You said go ahead and disagree and debate. My question was why bother? It looks to me like you are saying go ahead and voice what I disagree with. My question was, why when it won't make any difference? (I have in the past said what I disagree with, anyway. There's no secret there.)

It's not about opinions. It's about the general well being of the community.

You don't have strictly enforced guidelines where if Z happens, no matter who does it, there is an admin response. As such, it is about opinions. You started by saying it is a judgement call. As long as it is a judgement call it is about an opinion. If there was a policy and that policy was evenly enforced regardless of perpetrator then it would not be about opinions, then there would be no need for judgement calls. If you want it to truly be objective rather than subjective then X has to be reprimanded for calling someone an asshole (and Y for calling someone a twat) just as much as anyone else would be, no matter X's rank or standing in the community.

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