A day to day acount of the whacky and wonderful world of Muggaz - i tend to be having too much fun these days, and often cannot remember moments due to debauchery - its time the internet repayed my loyalty by recording my antics.
State before Self?
Published on September 1, 2004 By Muggaz In Politics
The fervour of the Olympics have died down, the patriotism of those countries that did well have not. Over the last few days, I have no doubt that I love my country, and the reasons I love my country are for all to see – however there are plenty of reasons why I should always question those that lead my country, and I will refuse to be blinded by patriotism.

Collectively, Australia is a spirited nation, depicted by the surf, sun and sand – laid back and care free, however we have the dark spectre of our colonial past, with various act’s committed by previous governments that should be, and are, held in contempt. The thing I love about Australia is that we can admit these grievances occurred, and as a nation, we are always moving forward. While cooperatively we are interested in the development of our nation, there will always be that sense of self which is evident in any western culture – self improvement and individualism, personal development, no matter your class, creed, or race.

This brings me to my next point. It’s a big one, and certainly open to interpretation, as the written word always is – my greif is with the P-P-P-Patriot act of the United States of America. Traditionally, I would argue when it comes to patriotism, no one loves their country more than the average American citizen. Australians love their country, but you don’t see flags posted out the front of every second house, and we don’t have figures or gimmicks if you will, like Uncle Sam – well, the boxing Kangaroo can be classed as a gimmick, but the boxing Kangaroo doesn’t need YOU for war – if you know what I mean.

The Patriot act walks all over everything Americans hold dear about their great country – home of the brave and land of the ‘free.’ From the moment an American is born, they are watched by the hawks, or bald eagles, whichever you want to say, I know it’s easy from the outside looking in, but the whole notion of American patriotism appears very authoritarian to me – a state before self if you will.

I am fortunate to know many Americans, some I hold dear, and some not so dear, but the simple fact of the matter is, in America’s eyes, the Patriot act is a good thing because essentially it was created to protect civilians from horrific events such as 9/11 – this tells me a lot about the average American – as long as their personal rights aren’t infringed upon, they don’t really care about the rights of others.

Americans are always having cracks at the French for their justice system, cheesy odours, whatever. In France, you are guilty until proven innocent. The USA is held in high esteem for the free and choice filled image it conveys, however, the rights and freedoms that so many US troops are dying for are being infringed upon with this Patriot act – suspicion should not be enough to invoke the act, hence rendering the liberties Americans hold dear useless.

America is regarded as the leader of the free world, this was true to me before the Patriot act, however, now I am not so sure. With the state before self ideology, the general American is happy with the Patriot act – the average American has nothing to hide from the government, besides, it would be futile as the government has been watching since birth anyway – immigrants come to America for the right to be treated as a normal person, they take American citizenship so they too can enjoy the rights Americans ‘enjoy’. These rights no longer seem attractive.

The Americans aren’t entirely to blame for the Patriot act though – it’s unfortunate that people like the 9/11 hijackers utilised these civil liberties, and used them to spit in the face of America – but when America takes these liberties away based on suspicion, the entire American value system is brought into question. It’s ironic that it is called the patriot act – Americans are patriotic because their country is great – there are only a few countries in the world where you can make yourself with hard work, where you have the liberties to do and say what you want – America is one of these countries, or was one of these countries, until they were attacked because of the very values they are destroying.

Its hard for me to see where America will head towards in the next few years – what their social conscience will say in the back of their heads, based on what I know of America, granted, it may be not so much, though, I do see Americans following their commander and chief just because of the office he represents. It is my honest opinion that America has a problem with personal integrity going out the window because the president says it’s ok – respect the office, not the man, all that kind of talk. The president of the United States of America should command tremendous respect – when the office represents traditional American values of the family and fair go.

Maybe if Australia was attacked in the same fashion, our government would try to try and pass a similar act through our senate, however, I believe such an act would not get of the ground based on the traditional Australian values of giving everyone a fair chance, and you truly are innocent until proven guilty. Australians need to protect their interests by maintaining our national identity, and to maintain out national identity, we need to be consistent with our personal identities – Australia is a beautiful and great country, but my integrity will always come before my countries, and hopefully that holds true for our population, we wont be blindly led by the red white and blue of any flag, state before self sounds like a policy from authoritarian China – there are bad people everywhere in the world, but when you stop trusting the good on their account, it’s an inevitable decline in all that countries like America are perceived to represent.

BAM!!!

Comments (Page 5)
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on Sep 05, 2004
True but look into the power of the Australian National Security Agency, I would be curious to know how much they have power to do.
on Sep 05, 2004
and yes I knew you were Australian after all you said you were from the get go
on Sep 10, 2004
I don't mind the Patriot act...and I'm an AMerican.....

its not that bad of a thing! yes we believ ein liberty and equality ....but we have learned the HARD way on September 11th that there are few who take advantage of those liberties and equalities. So we must persist on a proposal that saves the pain of another act like september 11th by confiscating just a few rights....
on Sep 10, 2004
excuse me. What liberty did the terrorists take advantage of? The liberty to kill people? I don't think such a liberty exsists.
on Sep 10, 2004
Patriot Act, schmatriot act, if you are complaining about the Patriot Act being such an oppressive document, why didn't you say anything before about the law (special executive order blah) that's been on the books for over 50 years, giving the power to the FBI, NSA, CIA, to do ANYTHING in the name of National Security, if you are blind to that fact and can only see the Patriot Act it's time to wake up, and learn that the Patriot Act just puts the National Security Order into a act with a fancy name.

Eventually the Patriot Act will no longer exist, but that does not mean the FBI, NSA, CIA lost it's power, it just means you fell asleep again, so wake up and realize that BIg Brother has been watching you for longer than 2001, 40 to 50 years longer (probably even older).
on Sep 10, 2004
Shozan... They had to show reasonable cause as to why such an investigation related to National Security. Now they can do what they want without cause and no one can talk about it because thats banned too.

http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11054&c=130

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12263&c=206

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12224&c=207
on Sep 10, 2004
Oops NM
on Sep 10, 2004
So we must persist on a proposal that saves the pain of another act like september 11th by confiscating just a few rights....


Where does it end? It creates a dangerous precept of recanting rights for "safety" that don't help us at all. After all, terrorists might be able to steal a plane outside USA and crash it here. Meanwhile, we suffer loss of freedom due to those few people, just like they wanted.

It could eventually lead to loss of freedom of speech due to some nonsense like "we need to control how people talk to prevent angering the terrorists enough for them to attack us!".

No, suppressing freedom is not the answer. Keeping all of the freedom is.
on Sep 10, 2004
But how do you show probable cause when it's a matter of National Security, and can't tell the public or anybody outside the NS Agencies?
Plus the NSA has been reading people's emails for years before 9/11. Reason why I sometimes stick in messages for them in case they happen to be reading my email, hehehe.

Granted they should change some things in the Patriot Act, but don't expect any help from either side, until the War Against Terror is over, which could take some time.

Than again, the Al-Qaida were using websites, and books to learn there trade to attack the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, so I can see why some of it was written.

There should be some checks put in, but the jest of what is in the Patriot Act is all for preventing further attacks on the United States by any terrorist group, I still think that eventually it will be gone and power still there, after all it only takes a probable cause for National Security, BUT don't expect that Act to be gone until the War Against Terror is over, because they don't want to chance another attack on both sides.

Wonder how hard it is to come up with a probable cause, bet they could say I am a Remote Control Terrorist, because I use a remote control to terrorize my TV into selling National Security Secrets to my Computer, hehe.

The Library thing to me sounds like they are dropping the ball, I mean 85 out 1500 libraries from by December 2001, that says not everybody is a suspect, or they could be and depending on which library you go to, they aren't looking, which would be saying that they are not doing their job, or don't care about the average citizen. Also in Bowling for Columbine, didn't Michael Moore point how easy it was to make explosives, if he didn't he missed half the point about Columbine, I personally would like the FBI look into people who are reading the books like the Anarchist Cookbook, etc. (which I have read it) and than going out and buying ingredients, unless they want somebody to use homemade Pipe Bombs, I can see it now National Homemade Pipe bomb Association protesting for Pipe bomb rights, hehehe.

Oh, by the by has anyone been wrongly mistreated by the FBI because of this Act, I would like to hear of any cases.

Short Summary of the Above:
Patriot Act won't go away until War against Terror is over.
Patriot Act needs checks added to it, since it won't go away until above is over.
National Homemade Pipe bomb Association is for People's rights to use pipe bombs, BOOM.
Michael Moore needs to law off the Twinkies, and use his money to go to a health club, or at least get a Personal Trainer, or else he could develop heart problems
I am a Remote Control Terrorist, I terrorize my TV to sell National Security Secrets to My Computer so that My Mouse can be free from my Keyboard's oppression.
That's about it, I think I attempted to be serious somewhat above where I first started but lost it after the Remote Control Terrorism and National Homemade Pipebomb Association, so forgive me for being a bit of a nutter.
on Sep 10, 2004
I am a Remote Control Terrorist, I terrorize my TV to sell National Security Secrets to My Computer so that My Mouse can be free from my Keyboard's oppression.


you better not say that online.
on Sep 10, 2004
You worry to much, and I worry to little, so put that together in a basket and you got Richard Nixon hopped up on 'special' brownies
on Sep 11, 2004
Reply #70 By: sandy2 - 9/10/2004 10:51:21 PM
I am a Remote Control Terrorist, I terrorize my TV to sell National Security Secrets to My Computer so that My Mouse can be free from my Keyboard's oppression.


you better not say that online.


Slightly too late, and unless that is a REAL threat, (with that?) I wouldn't worry.
on Sep 11, 2004
Patriot Act won't go away until War against Terror is over.
Patriot Act needs checks added to it, since it won't go away until above is over.


The PAtriot act will never go away...

The USA is turning into a police state, and due to the additional security a police state brings, the AMerican public have been scared into a situation where a police state is acceptable...

you think as soon as al_Quada is compromised completely (as if that will ever happen) the Patriot act will be shredded and disregarded?

BAM!!!
on Sep 11, 2004
BAM!!!


I am glad it's becoming a police state maybe than people would wake up, because of socialism taking effect and hold in the U.S., pretty soon we could be the People's Republic of America, because Socialism will always turn into Communism, just Socialism sounds nicer.

Just remember what happens in America will have ramifications even on Britain and Australia, and if you don't think so, you should take a closer look at what they are starting to do.

Before you spout of with they will never do that here, well as the Pigeon said on the American Tail Movie "Never Say Never!", if America falls to a Communist/Socialist mentality it will spread into the rest of America's allies.

I will be damned if I don't fight back when America becomes a Socialist (in reality Communist) State.

Resist Oppression, Buy Guns and keep your guns or else you will only resist oppression with sticks and stones against guns.

I guess a pro for communism is we can all wear nice little green outfits with red stars on them,

FEUER FREI!!
on Sep 11, 2004
shozan, muggaz.

I refer you back to my archives on this one: Link

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